If WSocial sold people on the idea that everyone they would interact with is ID-verified, then indeed, every single open ATProto community would act as a back door of sorts. The only way for them to deliver would be to de-federate entirely. And it's always a bad idea to bet against openness.
Wimster9030 🇪🇺 🇧🇪 (@wimster9030.wsocial.eu)
I know, Daniel, but that's not the way WSocial "sold" it to us. We could only access trough ID-verification so we know for 100% they are EU and a "real person". That was the whole point. So we went trough that process, but now it seems that the backdoor are the other ATProt platforms to get in too.
Trust Infrastructure on ATproto
I agree with Nick that you have noted a big hard problem, with Zooko’s triangle type trade-offs. (For a semi-related example that is “easier” but still crazy difficult, see our “PeerFlow: Secure Load Balancing in Tor” https://doi.org/10.1515/popets-2017-0017 ) As noted or implied already in this thread: in the end, if someone can cheaply spin up indefinite unlinked identities and build good reputations for them, and if trust is based on such reputations, it is hard (impossible?) to avoid them s...
WG Community Standards
A community space for coordinating, convening, and collaboration around ATProto
On verification and coordination authority - Connected Places
Who verifies the atproto developer community, and why can't it be the community itself?
What ATProto Needs to Support Consentful Distributed Community Governance
ATProto ideas
If AT Protocol becomes “a meaningful layer of the web” — even if it’s only tens of millions of users — then the winning ideas probably won’t only be futuristic...
[Proposal] WG for group/community standards and infrastructure in ATProto
Interested in contributing — specifically to Phase 1 (shared ontology and community archetypes). I’m a cognitive linguist and university researcher. My work on the AT Protocol side includes Mezzanine, an information networking system using opaque cashtag connectors as a routing layer, and two Leaflet pieces on community infrastructure as a gradient — from permissionless tag-based commons to credentialed spaces. The reason I’m flagging my disciplinary background: Phase 1 is where this WG will e...
@wsocial.eu - I was one of the first to subscribe after Davos, but now I wonder what's the use of WSocial. We had to show our ID to get access, but now it seems there are many backdoors without the need for verification. Maybe I just go back to Mastodon. Nice try, but I feel a little betrayed.
As atproto matures, adversarial actors will reveal all the places where trust is implicit rather than managed - maybe time to build reputation mechanisms for PDSs like we do for email servers? It'll likely need to be default-block/prove-healthy, or default throttle until proven typical?
Scoiattolo
They've got a huge network that I'm in the process of graphing. They're now setting up their own PDSes. It's sophisticated.
If WSocial sold people on the idea that everyone they would interact with is ID-verified, then indeed, every single open ATProto community would act as a back door of sorts. The only way for them to deliver would be to de-federate entirely. And it's always a bad idea to bet against openness.
Wimster9030 🇪🇺 🇧🇪
I know, Daniel, but that's not the way WSocial "sold" it to us. We could only access trough ID-verification so we know for 100% they are EU and a "real person". That was the whole point. So we went trough that process, but now it seems that the backdoor are the other ATProt platforms to get in too.
As atproto matures, adversarial actors will reveal all the places where trust is implicit rather than managed - maybe time to build reputation mechanisms for PDSs like we do for email servers? It'll likely need to be default-block/prove-healthy, or default throttle until proven typical?
Scoiattolo
They've got a huge network that I'm in the process of graphing. They're now setting up their own PDSes. It's sophisticated.
I don't deal in protocol wars, I place lots of bets on open tech. But there's a reason I don't typically expect durable open protocols to come from VC backed for-profit. If ATProto succeeds long term — it does show promise — it'll be in spite of Bluesky PBC, and thanks to the rest of the ecosystem.
